After downloading 6.12, I noticed the dart tool has been removed from the bodice. It is my understanding that Bob was notified of the problem and replied that the dart tool was unnecessary in the bodice because of reasons that make it sound like he has confused the bodice with the sloper. The bodice is the one in the Fitted Blouses/Bodice. It is very necessary for the dart tool to be activated because if you want to rotate your darts, you have to have access to the tower. Please give feedback on how you use the dart tool in the blue tower, keeping in mind that the sloper should "not" have moveable darts, but the bodice "should".
Kelly

Hi Kelly.the Bodice can be used as a bodice mostly in a dress setting...and has very limited user defined tools.

The FITTED bodice however provides you the same fit level and much much greater flexibility and also comes to waist.

Please take a look under 2 piece dress's.fitted rather than bodice and note the tools are allll functional.

Kaaren

When you try to access Darts using Dresses, 2-piece dress, bodice - you can get the blue tower darts - but both the front armhole and shoulder princess options are missing lines and are unusable. Sent a problem report to Bob.

Why are you trying to convert a bodice to a princess in the dart tool?

Use either the arm hole or shoulder princess bodice to start with dress>2piece

use the fitted top and dart tool.

they all work with the dart tool.

The bodice NEVER was designed to convert..thats why the dart tool is grayed out. But, you can start with one type of princess front and use the other back, or start with the greater possible variants with the fitted top.
Kaaren

quote:

After downloading 6.12, I noticed the dart tool has been removed from the bodice. It is my understanding that Bob was notified of the problem and replied that the dart tool was unnecessary in the bodice because of reasons that make it sound like he has confused the bodice with the sloper. The bodice is the one in the Fitted Blouses/Bodice. It is very necessary for the dart tool to be activated because if you want to rotate your darts, you have to have access to the tower. Please give feedback on how you use the dart tool in the blue tower, keeping in mind that the sloper should "not" have moveable darts, but the bodice "should".

Hello Kelly,

I don't know where your understanding of what I have said came from, but it is mistaken.

The bodice is a uniquely constructed garment, a one-of-a-kind design that drafts to the waist with darts determined solely by your High Bust and Bust Front measurements. It cannot be adjusted by any of the tools in Dress Shop. We would abandon that pattern altogether if it were not so useful as a sloper.

If you wish a pattern that can be adjusted using the tools (including the dart tool), you should use the Fitted Shirt. Every tool works with that pattern. You can adjust its length to waist level or higher. It is used as the basis for dozens of other patterns including the empire waist top.

The bodice patterns (sloper, basic bodice, and bodice top dresses) have never worked with most of the tools or adjustments in Dress Shop (neck and sleeve work). Ever. Nor will it. Ever. It is just incompatible with the methods of drafting that all other fitted tops use.

quote:

Originally posted by DressShopBob:
We would abandon that pattern altogether if it were not so useful as a sloper.

* In the past I have often taken the bodice pattern (not sloper) as a starting point and manually modified it to a custom design not available in Dress Shop.
* I have also used the bodice for a scooped neck button up waistcoat as part of peasant/country style dance costumes.
* For very round shoulders persons I have used the bodice as a sloper because I could adjust the shoulder dart width.
Just some reasons why the bodice is still useful. Sure, it may not be the most used pattern but it's a core silhouette in my book.

quote:

If you wish a pattern that can be adjusted using the tools (including the dart tool), you should use the Fitted Shirt. Every tool works with that pattern. You can adjust its length to waist level or higher.

The waist darts really don't look too good if you change it to waist level, and the back hem remains at the hip measurement.

The fitted top will give you exactly the same results but with more user defined tools available.

Kaaren

I don't understand the fitted top you refer to in either of your posts. What is the pattern name?

With the 2-piece dress, what is the difference between the bodice and the fitted top? Both patterns look the same. Same pattern, 2 different names. With one you can use the dart tool, with the other you can't. Sorry, I can't follow the logic behind this.

quote:

I don't understand the fitted top you refer to in either of your posts. What is the pattern name?

This particular name refers to the Dress menu - Two-Piece Dresses - Fitted Top pattern.

For a blouse, go with Blouse menu - Fitted Blouses - Fitted Shirt pattern.

quote:

With the 2-piece dress, what is the difference between the bodice and the fitted top? Both patterns look the same. Same pattern, 2 different names. With one you can use the dart tool, with the other you can't. Sorry, I can't follow the logic behind this.

The bodice top two-piece dress uses the basic bodice pattern for its upper half. The Fitted Top Two-Piece Dress uses the Fitted Shirt pattern for its upper half.

If you think these patterns are the same, then by all means, use the Fitted Top version. It can be adjusted. The other one works fine, as long as you want an unmodified basic bodice top.

You can change the neck, collar, or sleeves of either. But, the bodice has a unique dart construction and its darts cannot be adjusted.

quote:

Originally posted by DressShopBob:

If you wish a pattern that can be adjusted using the tools (including the dart tool), you should use the Fitted Shirt. Every tool works with that pattern. You can adjust its length to waist level or higher. It is used as the basis for dozens of other patterns including the empire waist top.

Bob,

I, too, use the bodice, even though it has several problems.

I have experimented, as you suggest, with the fitted shirt. It is true that I can shorten it to whatever length I want. What I cannot do, though, is easily adjust the waist east to get a side seam similar to the bodice. I have done it, but it takes a great deal of trial and error and more knowledge of how the program drafts than the average user has. I am not sure that even a saved pattern would work for all measurement sets. I haven't tried it.

What about a new garment that will allow dart and fit adjustments and fit closely at the waist? Is this feasible?

Thanks

I have experimented with the fitted top also. I can make changes easier than with the fitted shirt, but it is still difficult to get a true fitted waist, like with the bodice. In fact the waist (with 1 waist dart) needs to be eased onto the skirt, as it is not the same length.

As a test, I checked the front and back waist of the two tops. The fitted top is considerably wider at the waist than the bodice. I can succeed, with difficulty, in getting the waist width fairly accurate, but it destroys the fit of the skirt.

Also, adjusting the waist darts of the top makes the same adjustments to the skirt, if using a skirt with darts.

I could go on about the difficulties of using this top with a darted skirt (including overlapping darts), but I won't bother with that at this time. My priority is not this combination, but getting a top that fits closely at the waist.

Thanks

Bob, since several of us who sew everyday for ourselves and others are testifying to the fact that the Blouses/Fitted Blouse/Bodice
( sometimes used as a sloper ), is an important part of our sewing, is it in *our* best interest to disable it? This is our standard for measuring and for overlaying onto other DS patterns to make sure the new pattern will fit as well as the bodice. The consistant bodice block in design is a vital part of getting the garment you want.

Not only are we, the consumers, concerned, but your testers are even comfirming the need to have the bodice as our first upper body tool.

When we know our bodice fits, we are confident that any shirt or blouse we call up will fit. Isn't that the way you want us to be?

Kelly

quote:

Bob, since several of us who sew everyday for ourselves and others are testifying to the fact that the Blouses/Fitted Blouse/Bodice
( sometimes used as a sloper ), is an important part of our sewing, is it in *our* best interest to disable it? This is our standard for measuring and for overlaying onto other DS patterns to make sure the new pattern will fit as well as the bodice. The consistant bodice block in design is a vital part of getting the garment you want.

Not only are we, the consumers, concerned, but your testers are even comfirming the need to have the bodice as our first upper body tool.

When we know our bodice fits, we are confident that any shirt or blouse we call up will fit. Isn't that the way you want us to be?

Fine. Use it. As it is and as it has been since it was designed and released many years ago. Just don't ask that it be adjustable. It cannot. This garment was designed to be built to your measurements. No adjustments. No alterations. No additions. No tools. If you like that, then you can have it.

If more people find it frustrating than useful, then it will be removed from future versions of Dress Shop. Not yours. We try to never take away a pattern from anyone, no matter how well it has been replaced by newer and better patterns. But, the basic bodice may not be included in the core Dress Shop products sold in the future.

However, you should realize that the recent discussions about the side waist indent highlighted the fact that the bodice is used to confirm upper body measurements and yet the bodice does not reach hip level, whereas most upper body garments do. The bodice is not the ideal pattern to confirm all measurements that will be used to construct blouses and dreses thereafter. This limitation of the bodice as a measurement confirmation tool will be rectified some day.