I printed a 25% sheath sloper with grid lines on and this is the result. A drafting errror is putting a dart allowance on the back side seam also so when dart is folded out the entire back of pattern is longer by the amount of the dart intake. Try it yourself. This is probably caused by side seams being matched before dart amount taken out. INSTEAD of after. A sequence error. It is quite obvious on the paper with grids on. Try it yourself. The solution is to splice across the back and overlap that amount which raises the entire back level with the front.

P.S. This correction will work of course until drafting error is corrected. I hope we will be notified so we will know when we don't have to adjust this error anymore. Thanks

Hi I/we appreciate your effort in advising us you see a problem

but.....please fold out your side dart
then align side seam stitch lines
from underarm to hem.
they match.

the alignement on the page with grid on misaligns the pattern pieces.The grids wont align.They were never meant to.

your assesment of how the patetrn drafts and whats "wrong" is not correct.

there is an issue! we acknowledge that.its more severe for some than others. In fact MANY have NO problem.

We know that and we may even have found out why.

Insisting on the dart take up/placment, addition of dart take up length etc is a misdirection and is not accurate.

The amoutn fo dart take UP is accuratly placed in the side length to 1/24th of an inch.

The "fix" will NOT be in the next update even though it is well documented and being worked on.

It will take more time to assess, program ,change code, and test than we have left before the next release.

Kaaren

Hi Kaaren

Thanks for your response. I just went back and printed out another 35% sloper. I folded out the front dart then I removed the same amount from back by overlapping by front dart "amount" from the back at bust level. Wow all the body lines and grid lines now line up!!!!!Isn't that great? There is only a small truing needed at the hem line. The hips lines actually do line up. I didn't think they would but all the torso (reference line) level with each other now. That does seem desirable doesn't it? Again thanks for your response.

Rachel
Greenacres, FL

Kaaren,
Thank you for your response to the problem I posted several days ago. I've been ill with a nasty migraine and unable to respond. I'm glad to know that something is in the works to correct the waist/ab problem.

Colleen

Dear Kaaren,

I'm so glad you have clarified where LivingSoftNW stands on this issue. I will have this info available for our Sept 30 workshop attendees. This helps a lot!!!

Hi Kaaren, I followed the instructions for the sheath dress and my front and back waist is off by 1 1/4". Is this the information you require?

Yes thank you Jacqui.
K

My waist indentation is too low by two and a half inches, or aproximately the depth of my bust dart. I am 5ft 2 ins, curvaceous H or hefty X. Thanks karen.
Shirley D.

This IS being worked on and while it is coincidental that it appears to match or be similiar to the amount of side darting it is NOT related...

We believe we do KNOW the source its just a matter now of figuring how best to change it.
Kaaren

Thank you Kaaren, this is good to hear.

quote:

My waist indentation is too low by two and a half inches, or aproximately the depth of my bust dart. I am 5ft 2 ins, curvaceous H or hefty X. Thanks karen.
Shirley D.

This IS being worked on and while it is coincidental that it appears to match or be similiar to the amount of side darting it is NOT related...

We believe we do KNOW the source its just a matter now of figuring how best to change it.

This is not really a complete enough answer to this question. There is a lot of confusion about the location of the waist indent in a flat pattern. The indent is supposed to be placed below the line that indicates your waist position on the flat pattern. It should be lower by the width of your side bust dart. That is to insure that, when the side bust dart is sewn closed, the waist indent is pulled upwards by that amount and should now hit the location of your pattern's waist line. So, being out of position on the flat pattern by the width of the side bust dart may be exactly right.

What would not be right, however, is if it is not in the correct location on your body once you make a garment. If your fitted pattern is too tight at the ab, for instance, and the location on the assembled garment of the waist is not where you think it should be, then you do have a problem.

Why would that happen? There are many possibilities and the only way that anyone can tell which one applies to any given case is to look at the measurement set being used and see what it suggests. I have received no problem reports (which would include measurement sets) on this issue in recent months. However, when this has been reported in the past, the most common reason found is multiple waist positions in the measurement set.

There are so many ways to take body measurements, that it is quite easy to take some of them in ways that are different from what Dress Shop expects or assumes. This is particularly likely if you are an experienced sewer, used to taking your own measurements and comfortable with the procedures that you have used successfully for many years. While those procedures may have served you well with other patterns, they may not match what Dress Shop assumes and what other Dress Shop users may be doing.

Any fitted dress or long blouse longer than waist level in Dress Shop uses both upper body measurements (which are confirmed using a bodice sloper) as well as lower body measurements (which are confirmed or tested using pants slopers). There is no sloper garment that confirms that these two groups of measurements are consistent with each other. They should be. Dress Shop assumes they are. But, there is no sloper test to prove that they are.

How can you tell that they are not consistent? The waist indent being out of place is one clue that this has happened. To check, you only need to compare the position of your upper body waist and your lower body waist. If these amounts are not the same, then that may be the problem. There are other possibilities, but this is the first that should be checked and you can only check it by looking at your measurements. There have been no problem reports on this subject in recent months, so I cannot say whether this discrepancey is the cause of all of the recent posts or not.

But, here's how you can check for yourself:

1. Find the side waist position number 1. Calculate waist tilt by taking Floor To Waist Front and subtracting Floor To Waist Side. That difference is your front waist tilt. Add that number to your Full Length Front measurement and you now have the distance from the top of your pattern to your side waist location. Save this number. To be really thorough, you can repeat this with your back measurements. It should end up with the same side waist position.

2. Now, take your shoulder drop amount. This can be calculated using trigonometry, a task better done by a computer. So, just draft a blouse, turn on the grid, and count the squares from the topmost point on the shoulder line to the shoulder tip. How many vertical inches does the shoulder drop. To that number, add Armhole Depth. To that, add Side Length. That total should also be your side waist position.

Are the numbers the same? I think they should be. Dress Shop assumes that they will be. If they are not, then why not?

I have some guesses on that question, but I'll save those till we know if this discrepancy is there or not. It was the cause of a few cases of this problem that were reported some time back, but we cannot tell if it is your cause without seeing your measurements. A problem report would provide those if you would rather Livingsoft checked this for you.

Or, use the calculation above to check for yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by DressShopBob:
But, here's how you can check for yourself:

1. Find the side waist position number 1. Calculate waist tilt by taking Floor To Waist Front and subtracting Floor To Waist Side. That difference is your front waist tilt. Add that number to your Full Length Front measurement and you now have the distance from the top of your pattern to your side waist location. Save this number. To be really thorough, you can repeat this with your back measurements. It should end up with the same side waist position.

2. Now, take your shoulder drop amount. This can be calculated using trigonometry, a task better done by a computer. So, just draft a blouse, turn on the grid, and count the squares from the topmost point on the shoulder line to the shoulder tip. How many vertical inches does the shoulder drop. To that number, add Armhole Depth. To that, add Side Length. That total should also be your side waist position.

Are the numbers the same? I think they should be. Dress Shop assumes that they will be. If they are not, then why not?

At first this sounded totally logical to me. I'm in the middle of redoing my slopers after a 25 lb weight loss but decided to give the calculations a try. I came up with a 1-1/8 inch descrepancy with item #2 being shorter than #1. I started to panic because I didn't see anything in measurements where I could correct that large a difference.

As I was removing my laundry from the dryer I began to think. (You have to realize that I'm definitely not a math or geometry wonder so this could be worthless.) Is the software supposed to think that we have a boob that points out our sideseam?

My Full Front measurement includes the slope and bumps, with a bridge as instructed, of my extremely large bust. How can a calculation of shoulder drop, armhole depth, and sideseam ever match a measurement that includes the bust? One set of measurements is strictly vertical while the other, while also an up and down measurement, has additional mountains and valley's in it? Am I missing something?

I have to admit that I haven't gotten to the point of making much other than test blouses before my weight loss so I'm not sure whether this is really a problem for me.

Are the numbers the same?
Do you mean does the shoulder drop + armhole depth + distance from bottom of armhole depth to the waist (side seam) equal the same amount as the front full length measurement + difference caused by a tilted waist?
Is this what you are trying to show?
What will you do in your formula to provide for the amount of side dart that we will be sewing out when we sew up the dart as there is a part of the dart (about 3/4" in my case) that is in the line of the shoulder point to waist.
The paper pattern might show that the numbers are the same, but when you sew the garment it will be different.
Also, what about the ease that is placed in the armhole. I find that my armhole depth is 4.87", but the pattern shows 6".
With your formula, are we to use our measurements only, or the paper pattern that we print out?

quote:

Originally posted by DLJones:
What will you do in your formula to provide for the amount of side dart that we will be sewing out when we sew up the dart as there is a part of the dart (about 3/4" in my case) that is in the line of the shoulder point to waist.
The paper pattern might show that the numbers are the same, but when you sew the garment it will be different.
Also, what about the ease that is placed in the armhole. I find that my armhole depth is 4.87", but the pattern shows 6".
With your formula, are we to use our measurements only, or the paper pattern that we print out?

I'm not anyone who really knows but I think this applies to your measurement chart only. This is the basis the pattern is based on. Ease and darts and the actual pattern aren't involved. The dart isn't the first thing the program calculates. I'd assume more like the last.

I tried measuring my front length almost like the Body Depth and it came out very close to the shoulder measurement + AH depth + sideseam. I took a level and placed it across my shoulder/neck point facing forward. Then I took a wood yardstick and measured from the bottom of the level straight down to my front waist point minus the tilt. (The level and yardstick should make a right angle.) This exercise also pointed out prior to making my pants sloper that my FTW side and front are a little bit off.

This measurement doesn't exist in DressShop. So what is the difference between it and the Full Front measurement .... the additional distance to cover the bust. This additional distance may or may not come close to your dart uptake since the dart uptake is calculated using the High Bust and Full Bust measurements which are horizontal measurements. Depending on how the program calculates everything it might or might not be even close to the correction that some users need. I think this was what Karen was pointing out a couple of days ago on the list.

Remember with a forward tilted waist you will be adding a negative number to the Full Front measurement in Bob's formula.

Vicki