I thought the bodice of my fitted blouse was pretty good except I need to raise the bust dart. However sadly when I put the sleeve in it was a disaster. I need to move the entire arm scye closer to the body about 1/2 inch except for under the arm. When I tried to narow the sholder from 5 to 4 1/2 it didn't move in from the arm it moved furter away from the neck. I have tried and tried but I'm getting nowhere. Please help me.

To move the shoulder point change the across shoulder
Kaaren

The sholder length in my measurements is 4 1/2. However when it is printed out the actual area between sewing lines in 5 1/4. I printed out 3 different size patterns with sholder length ranging from 5 5/16 to 4 1/2 and there is no difference in the pattern when they are overlayed one on top of the other. They are exactly the same in every way. Not just the sholder length.

quote:

The sholder length in my measurements is 4 1/2. However when it is printed out the actual area between sewing lines in 5 1/4. I printed out 3 different size patterns with sholder length ranging from 5 5/16 to 4 1/2 and there is no difference in the pattern when they are overlayed one on top of the other. They are exactly the same in every way. Not just the sholder length.

The width of a pattern at the shoulder point is controlled by Across Shoulder Front and Across Shoulder Back. Shoulder length is then used to measure BACK from that point to the edge of the neck. So, as you increase Shoulder Length, you should get a narrower and narrower neckline.

Of course, that changes based on neckline choice as well. And, the width at the shoulder also varies based on the shoulder extension setting, which in turn varies from pattern to pattern. Looser patterns get more shoulder extension.

You really cannot work on measurements when you look at multiple patterns. Too many other variables will get in the way.

The length of where the shoulder point lays on your body is controlled by two things.
One is the chart- the across shoulder from shoulder to shoulder minus the shoulder length (x2) = the neck opening. The across shoulder is what changes where the shoulder point is NOT the shoulder length.

When you vary the shoulder length you vary the neck opening.

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The other factor is the design itself of the garment.
The design default CAN and often does extend the shoulder
OR adjust the neck opening

A scoop neck is not only deeper than a jewel neck but it is wider.
Various garments have preset shoulder extensions varying from less than an a half inch to 1/2 the shoulder length.

Use your reference lines and amounts and the grid. When you overlay 1/4 scale patterns to compare them align the shoulder and the bust apex and center lines.

You should "see" the differences in patterns more easily.

Kaaren

Elaine,
This is the same problem I had with my last fitted blouses - shoulder width and across shoulder wider than chart and I could not alter it in Options. I finally just adjusted my measurement chart for the shoulder length and across shoulder. I really don't need any ease in these areas.
My biggest bug-a-boo with RTW is that the shoulder length is always too wide. Golly, I hate making this alteration.
My last questions was if there was any blouses in MPD that did not add ease across the shoulder but I have not heard. A fitted blouse should not have a dropped shoulder that I know of unless it is wanted. For added ease, I'd rather have a little more under the arm so I could raise my arm.

Hi Elaine,
Do you have the newest update to Dress Shop? I had this exact problem with my shoulder measurements with a previous version, I can't remember which one it was, maybe 6.16 or 6.17. Now that I have 6.19, the meaurements will change. Just an idea

DL Jones: I have narrow shoulders. I've been working on my sloper in MPD, and finally have the shoulder point in right place. My blouses draft good for shoulders - they do not drop down my sleeve, they sit on top where they are supposed to (I have some issues with front and back chest measurements yet, but working on it). So the answer to your question is yes, the mpd blouses sit on your shoulder.

Any blouse or shirt/dress even jacket can be forced to use the true shoulder point- open the fit box click advanced- if there is a numeric entry in the shoulder entry box other than 0 set it to 0 or whatever your prime desired number is. The slight drop to the shoulder is "customary" for a lot of designs- but you get the option to have what you want.
Kaaren

I think that all DL Jones and I are talking about is just a blouse sitting on the shoulder where we think it should sit, as opposed to a "casual" fit which is down the arm. I don't think either of us are after a higher, or "true shoulder" fit, just a normal fit. Those of us with narrow shoulders just get frustrated that most rtw, and some patterns, don't accomodate our bodies. My point was only that a normal blouse in mpd, with accurate measurements, fits the narrow shoulder just fine.

Well let me answer all the questions.I have the laterest version of DS 7 and My Pattern Designer. I probably wouldn't even care so much where the sholder point hit if the sleeves didn't look so horrible. I can't even describe how bad they look. So I was hoping if I could get the sholder point where it should be, I could make a presentable sleeve. None of you seem to get the point that the blouses I'm overlaying are not just the same at the sholder. They are the same every where. No change anywhere what so ever. Again I'm being told to change numbers (tweak) that have been measured and are accurate. So how do you guess what number to plug in if you can't use the number that is your measurement. I'll settle for an OK fit. Anything so that I can use the patterns and finally make some clothes. But what I'm turning out is un whearable. I can wear a size 20 Simplicity or Kwik Sew so I thought I'd just use a size 20 top from DS. The problem is when it drafts it is absolutely the same as my measurements. Nothing changes.

Elaine, I can't help you at all on the problem where nothing changes - will leave that to the experts.

But there is something that I'd like to share about sleeves - mine were horrible for a while too. Nothing seemed to help. Then I made (yet another) sloper, using fabric from here and there, so that by happenstance the sleeves were bright red and the bodice was a pale colour. Then, also by chance, I had pictures taken front and back, to get advise on what I thought was an unrelated problem.

Much to my surprise, the pictures clearly showed that the sleeve was intruding way out into the bodice in both front and back and I had to shorten chest measurements. If someone had told me that before I saw the pics, I would have disagreed.

So, on the sole issue of sleeves looking awful, please consider doing yet another sloper, in contrasting fabric, and getting some pics taken, and either take a good look or ask kaaren to look at them.

Good luck with the other issue. I know how frustrating this can be, sometimes you just want to give up and you feel like you've spent so much time and money and nobody is "getting" it and you want to stop drafting and just sew. Please don't give up yet.

quote:

Well let me answer all the questions.I have the laterest version of DS 7 and My Pattern Designer. I probably wouldn't even care so much where the sholder point hit if the sleeves didn't look so horrible. I can't even describe how bad they look. So I was hoping if I could get the sholder point where it should be, I could make a presentable sleeve. None of you seem to get the point that the blouses I'm overlaying are not just the same at the sholder. They are the same every where. No change anywhere what so ever. Again I'm being told to change numbers (tweak) that have been measured and are accurate. So how do you guess what number to plug in if you can't use the number that is your measurement. I'll settle for an OK fit. Anything so that I can use the patterns and finally make some clothes. But what I'm turning out is un whearable. I can wear a size 20 Simplicity or Kwik Sew so I thought I'd just use a size 20 top from DS. The problem is when it drafts it is absolutely the same as my measurements. Nothing changes.

I'm sorry, Elain, but as long as you try to get help with notes like this, you are not likely to get useful advice. While venting might make you feel better at the moment you write, it is not going to help anyone else advise you. People need to know what pattern you used, what numbers you put in (across shoulder measurements) what results you got out (actual width of the pattern at the shoulder), what you changed the numbers to, and what result you got then. The pattern never changed? Ok, but did YOU change the Across Shoulder measurement by some meaningful amount? Your note does not make clear what numbers you changed nor by how much. As long as you choose to vent rather than report, you can only get sympathy from others and frustration for yourself.

Your second problem is your insistent attachment to "numbers that have been measured and are accurate." That is the most common cause for failure in making computer generated patterns, regardless of which pattern making product you use. Pattern making software drafts patterns based on a handful of body measurements that may or may not include every bit of your body that is relevant to a good fit. If you have a body feature that the Dress Shop measurement chart does not cover, then you have to account for that yourself when you work your sloper. That sloper garment is what you use to adjust your measurements as needed to make the patterns work. The measurements you get with a tape are a good starting point. But, if you cling to that starting point and are fearful about changing anything that is accurate and right and therefore untouchable, then you will not ever get the best fit.

Change the numbers. Make a sloper. If it fits better, then that number is a better measurement for you while you are using Dress Shop. It may not match your tape, but it works and that is what you want, isn't it? If you prefer accurate measurements to better fit, then you will continue to be frustrated with your results.

Another little tip, we learned in class ages ago is.Print off just the shoulder section of what you want in a garment,try it on and see if its where you want it to be, also this can be done with the neck depth check.

Elaine, I know the feeling and I've been there many times. Yesterday, I took the sleeves off of two blouses that I made last summer, put a facing on the armhole openings so that I can at least wear them as overblouses with a long sleeved tshirt underneath. We are all snowflakes, that is for sure. I know that you and I know how to measure and we can also measure the pattern to see what we are getting from a draft. I have been on both the DS and MPD list for many years, and, I am still here. That should be some consolation to the company. I am not here to complain. I am only here to explain what I am getting from the draft. I can't help it that I am a snowflake, and for some reason, I guess DS and MPD can't help it either. I do like the information that is given sometimes on how the draft is built. That helps somewhat. I am happy for those snowflakes that get a good fit.