I would like to chime in with someone elses post. Would it be possible in the future to code designs so we know what tools may be used with them. Example: fit tool has a circle by it...dart tool has a triangle....etc. If the slim fit pant may use the fit tool and the dart tool,there is a circle and a triangle after it. If the jean may not use these tools....there are no symbols. Is something like this possible? Cheryl

Just happened to see this post. What a wonderful idea. I don't have time to read the list all the time and it is so frustrating to spend hours and days trying to get something to work and then find out it wasn't meant to work with a certain tool in the first place. If the tool is activated, one would naturally think it was supposed to work.

I just wish we could stop on the new stuff for awhile and PERFECT what we have. It just seems that every update or build we get breaks something we already have. We think we have something working correctly, print a new pattern and sew something up and discover it is wrong. Fabric I've wasted? I don't even want to go there.

quote:

I just wish we could stop on the new stuff for awhile and PERFECT what we have.

We could certainly do this. However, since it requires income for the company to survive, there would need to be some source. We could charge for service. Or, we could charge for updates. Or, we could charge for new products. If you do not wish more new products, would you rather pay for service or updates?

Personally, I would rather pay for something that works, so I guess that would mean I would pay for a working update.

quote:

Originally posted by DressShopBob:

We could certainly do this. However, since it requires income for the company to survive, there would need to be some source. We could charge for service. Or, we could charge for updates. Or, we could charge for new products. If you do not wish more new products, would you rather pay for service or updates?

In all honesty, I'd rather pay for something that works than get something for free that doesn't work. But then again, I've already paid for my DS software where everything at some time has worked ... just unfortunately it seems that it has never been all at the same time.

That's our frustration -- too many surprises. And too many unknowns (such as the original request in this thread to know what are the best starting points to achieve our goals). Only people who regularly read the list know about current dilemmas and very few have the time to track current status.

Back to where does the money come from? How about new marketing for currently available tools -- with more information on how to use them. Generate new revenue with old products that are already through development.

Appeal to your two market bases with two separate sales campaigns: 1) power users who want to create -- educate and push the tools, make examples out of a few sample patterns and tell which tools were used to modify basic blocks to achieve the patterns; and 2) novice users, novice sewers, or limited-time users who want the convenience of the patterns without buying or using the tools.

If every week you had a new "featured" pattern on the website that was "dissected" you could have light bulbs glowing all over the world and IMO that would stimulate sales. Tools for some, pattern sets for others.

Then the newly "found" revenue could pay to fix the bugs introduced-with or not-yet-fixed in the last update and hopefully prevent new ones.

Word of mouth can be a powerful sales tool -- for either "made" sales or "lost" sales. Getting the software fixed would benefit us all.

Maybe open a new forum for suggestions that could be approached from a win-win perspective. Our high school has a parents' advisory council that can ask questions, address concerns, offer suggestions, and help find solutions.

I know Livingsoft has a priority "hit list" for future development. Why not open a forum where you could do some free market research -- get feedback of what we're really wanting to buy and focus your energy and efforts to where the sales would be.

It could be a private forum -- encourage participation and comments from established User Groups and long-time DS owners. Maybe this already exists ...

HTH

Very well stated Gayle. I agree totally with everything you said. PLEASE Bob, Kaaren, whomever.......LISTEN to your loyal users. Fix what we have so we can use the program with confidence.

I was going to let this go, but since the topic has started, I'll add my thoughts. Last night when I loaded the new update, I found that two issues introduced in ver 6.12 had not been corrected - saved patterns loading incorrectly, and default ease values for some patterns changing dramatically from ver 6.11 (bicep ease in particular). I know that there was some debate over the ease issues, but to me, the issue with saved patterns was a no-brainer. I reported both of these issues in a problem report last night, and Bob quickly responded that if I checked the problem list, I would see that the saved pattern issue was not addressed in this new version. OK, if this was a hard problem to fix, fine, but why release this load before it was ready? I know there were a lot of other things fixed, but I was working on a Chanel jacket with modified ease values that I cannot work with until the saved pattern issue is resolved. Loading saved patterns has been an option for a long time, and now, poof, it's gone. I know that revenue is needed to keep the company going, but there has got to be a way to clean up the basic program so that it remains stable. Patti

Hi.Gaye and Kay,

Im not trying to be harsh... if you have a problem we WANT TO HELP FIX IT.

we NEED to define that x pattern is mal functioning or is there another reason.

Saying something doesnt work and NOT saying which pattern/design element/tool you are having a problem with doesnt get us to LOOK at anything specific.and nothing HAPPENS.

We have spent a lot of time the last 6 months refining and introducing new tools to assist the user in getting an even better pattern fit.

IF you have an issue with A pattern or B pattern or C pattern send in a problem report.use the comment box to be descriptive.

NAME the problem
and the pattern

I reread your post about 5 times looking for the source of your irritation

There's NOTHING specific... to try and hunt down.

I ahd a lady once in workshop who was looking for a good fit.she looked in the mirror and almost cried.

I thought wow..what can she be unhappy about.thats a great fit.

after a moment she looked up and said."it fits great.best fitting jacket I ever had on.(snif snuffle) but Im still old and still fat".

(she IS NOT FAT, and not old she's younger than me.....and you know who you are!)
Kaaren

Kaaren

I don't think there is one specific pattern that is giving everyone fits. You have to admit that every time someting new is added or a new fix is released, something old is broken.

What started this thread for me was someone posting about a list or format or something to show what patterns are supposed to work with tools and which ones are not.

My latest frustration was in using the jeans pattern. I chose the pattern and then fit tools, which offered all these options. All I wanted to do was make a copy of a RTW boot cut jean, so I decreased thigh and knee one inch and increased hem cicumference to 20. What I get is a really strange looking pattern. I had a couple of others check to see what they got. They also got a strange pant. I DID send a report to Bob as well as a scan of the pattern before and after the numbers I put in for ease changes. I never heard back from him.
Eventually someone wrote and said they thought maybe the jean was a pattern that you could NOT use the fit tools with. IF that is the case, why in the world would they be activated with that pattern. If ever a pattern should be changeable, it would be the jean. There are so many different jeans styles etc, that the fit tool could accomplish, IF it worked.

I spent days working on the jean and a few test muslins. I still don't know if there is a problem with the jean or if it just isn't changeable.

Probably the reason no one mentiond a specific pattern is because normally there are several. We don't know until we want to use that pattern, that something isn't right and we have to work and work to try and find out if it is the user, the pattern, or the tools or what.

If, as someone suggested, each pattern was coded as to what patterns you could change and which ones you couldn't it would save so much time.

I think it should be imperative that a company put their best foot forward and provide a program without errors. BEFORE putting out new items, make sure the current items work.

Eventually current users are going to get tired of purchasing new packages, when they know it probably will not work anyway.

I've had this program from the very beginning. I have a lot invested in it, in money and time. It is a great program, but COULD BE AN AWESOME program.

I think Gayle stated some great marketing ideas on building revenue and still providing the best to your current customers. As you know, or should anyway, a happy customer means more customers.

Sorry this is so long, but you asked.

k

quote:

Originally posted by Kaaren Hoback:
Hi.Gaye and Kay,

I reread your post about 5 times looking for the source of your irritation

There's NOTHING specific... to try and hunt down.

Ok, this may sound testy but I really don't mean it to be.

Bob asked a question re what we want for free/what we'd pay for/where would money come from for fixes.

10% of my post was a comment about everything not all working at the same time -- and that comes from a general pattern developed over a period of new updates, most noticeably in the last year -- not uncommon for someone to write and say "what happened?"

Another 10% was that there are too many unknowns -- and a request for info about good starting points. The original post in this thread requested some way of knowing which tools should/would work with different patterns. I've asked for descriptions of patterns but that's still on someone's To Do list (or I hope it is). Just to know what to expect when choosing say Fitted pants vs Slim Fit pants vs Jeans ... which ones work with which negative ease, etc., or which ones draft from hip to hem or hip to knee to hem, etc.

Finally, 80% of my post dealt again with Bob's comment that a company requires income to survive -- I gave a suggestion about generating income. What would help LivingSoft and at the same time help the users?

So I don't know why you read my post 5 times looking for a pattern problem report. Bob asked a question and I answered it.

BTW you didn't address the idea of featuring a "pattern of the week" to explain where it started and what tools developed it. This would spark interest in tools of the DIY-ers and in patterns for those not interested in tools for reasons of either time/experience/money/creativity.

And, I know you are the Queen of Typos, but you like the extra A in your name, and I like the L in mine. Thanks.

GayLe

quote:

We could certainly do this. However, since it requires income for the company to survive, there would need to be some source. We could charge for service. Or, we could charge for updates. Or, we could charge for new products. If you do not wish more new products, would you rather pay for service or updates?

Bob, normally a business will offer a product and sell it for a price. You have a product, and have sold it to my wife. This is your source of income. Now I'm not sure that there is a software product out there that will work flawlessly all the time, but it would only seem reasonable that if your product is malfunctioning in any way that you would gladly offer a complimentary repair. This would be the price of doing business; it is good customer service. It would seem that if you want to sell more product in the future you would begin by making your current customers happy. If the product is good people will buy it and tell others about it, right. Bundling new product in with updates/repairs isn't necessarily a bad idea, it seems like good business sense to me, but what if it causes the product you have already sold to fail? I know for a fact that my wife was very excited to have purchase Dress Shop, but now she is unhappy about that purchase, and wonders if she has made a big mistake. This is a big deal to her, because she is helping to provide for her family. She is trying to provide good service to her customers with your product. From what I've seen, your company has taken a very callus stance toward their customers needs. I have read some emails that you have published that are unreal; they are degrading and dis-respectful. I know nothing about sewing; I think your product is amazing; I think that you deserve to make a profit for your hard work. But, I believe that it is shortsighted to promote future business at the expense of customer satisfaction, and at the expense of your company's name. I believe that you are shooting yourself in the foot. The word that comes to mind is greed. Greed seems to work ok for a while some of the time, but I'm sure that you would agree, if you were to take an objective view, that it is not pretty.

I was surprised that you would ask for input regarding your marketing plan. Did you really want input Bob, or was this just another way to make this poor woman feel like she should shut up and stick to sewing ...your the programmer right Bob? The big masculine business owner. Why who are these women to ask you for help? Bob, I'm sure you are tired of people asking the same stupid questions all the time huh? Perhaps you could try updating a board that would offer solutions to new issues. Or perhaps you might realize that there are not stupid repetitive questions, but popular questions. Questions to problems that you have failed to resolve, or lack the creativity to provide easy access to the information that would answer the constant questions, hence freeing you up to fix your software.


This is becoming the kind of company that somebody needs to make a public example of...your way of doing business is reprehensible. I really think you should consider closing your email account at least until you have taken some stress management courses. And there must be some good people there that can be helpful to these WONDERFUL women who are maintaining a dying art, providing a service to their community or just trying to put clothing on their children. Good day.

Also, from one man to another, do not speak down to my wife again. If you wish to respond, please make your response to me, not my wife, and keep it short, yes or no preferably.

Charles R. Lepley

How many people does Livingsoft have on the books that have only purchased one or two products - then dropped out and there have been no further repeat sales of upgrades, new collections, etc.? How many people have started out with DS, become totally frustrated and just dropped out - and then told everyone they know to avoid DS. Over the years, I have often felt Livingsoft was it's own worst enemy - study Livingsoft for a lesson on how NOT to market a product.

We need a good basic product that works - not one which always has something that is broken or changed with each new update. We have paid for a product that is supposed to work (supposedly a Rolls Royce - not a lemon that never leaves the repair shop).

To increase sales, you need a reliable product and happy customers that will sell it for you. Not continuing upsets and frustrated drop out customers that give you a bad name.

I feel DS could have a far better product than PMB. But DS seems to be forever broken and changing unpredictably in an effort to bring out new toys (that won't work because basic problems have never been fixed) - while PMB sticks to selling the old basics that work in a reliable fashion to new people.

We paid for the product, we paid for Upgrades - when will the basics that we have already paid for be fixed?

First and foremost apologies for the missed spelling GAYLE .
I didnt ask for that double A my Finnish mother stuck me with a name that doesnt sound like Karen nor is it spelled like it.so I appreciate the fact you would like a proper spelling.

I think Ive found a way for the average user to decode what's a silhouette and what's a design.

I doubt you will ever get a list...with our current capability and whats on the dock we arent talking a 100 or even a thosuand patterns but many many possibilities.

So let em start here.if the pattern has a name that's in common use such as sheath, shift, trouser, unfitted shirt, fitted blazer its a silhouette.

If its Named....the Nancy, Audrey, Fab Tunic, Weskit, princess disappearing into pleat, low rise slim fit capri...with one or more adjectives its a design.

If Mia has a mess of selection "regions" showing its likely to be a silhouette.if some regions are missing its a design.

Now to quanitfy that a little bit.

What makes a design different from a silhouette?

A tool has been employed to override the normal draft code and and make a change to do soemthign "else".

That change may have limits or it breaks.

Some tools dont play well with others.

The weskit shirt has a pointed front hem. It has no darts. I can with my special tool add darts..it cant/ wont ever sew up correctly and have that point hang perfectly if there is a x inch side dart.

Cant wont..happen so it s A DESIGN.
CAN YOU CHANGE THE NECK.yes
CAN YOU CHANGE THE SLEEVE yES
SO SOME TOOLS ARE ALLOWED TO COME PLAY.but NOT ALL.

IF you alter the length and shorten it.it CAN break, though we made a CODE change to this garment allowing a very wide range of length choices.

The choice therefore for US is do we take away the length option period.or allow for adjustments.

Beware though as you can lengthen this beast to the floor but it will NEVER take into account waist shaping or even the width of the HIP...its designed to draft so the center front is at waist.It does not nor can it change to a hip length blouse and redefine what happens BELOW the waist.


Another question we ask is Does a pattern tool, element break at exactly the same spot for everyone or is that contingent on the chart used?

if the answer is it always breaks at x degrees we can flag the code to not draft over that number of degrees.ever...( and awast the individual who is the exception to the "rule" to chime in)

but if a french dart works for me at 43 degrees and you can use 54 degrees and it doesnt break on your chart we are not going to flag it. Evene though 48-54 is the normal break point for that dart.

Often the issue is will the dart selected work within the environment of the possible use of fit/shaper/closure/flare/length options.

Sometimes a design is just plain something out of my head or seen on line, in a shop, or on soemone walking down the street that "triggers" a design.

Some times it is employing classic elements in a different way. or even a standard way but not done by US before.

Sometimes those designs dont conform to the DS classic way of doing things.ie all blouses end at hip.and suddenly theres a need for a blouse than ends above waist at waist or at abd....

that blouse needs a whole string of new code .to meet those specific parameters.

So lets start with.if it is named something versus the simple classic name.sheath,shell,fitted pant
its probably has some elements that are restrictive to havng the "all tool" use designation. so thats a design.

and if when you open the pattern and view Mia there is a definite limit of how many regions appear.its a design.

NOTE which regions from the normal list arent there.

Dont select a stretch raglan and try and make it a set in sleeve princess.

Sure we left the dart tool available on the xyz pattern so you could adjust length or dart take up.

that doesnt mean every pattern could/should be converted in to a shoulder princess front, panel back.

We either close a tool out if it flat out wont work with the code thats in there. or leave it open so you can make minor adjustments with SOME part or all of the tool..

If we start closing tools because in A situation B wont work but maybe C will....YOUR creativity may be limited .

Our new patterns.all have required SOME changeS from default settings and you could maybe clone some of them.... BUT likely not.

But plan on getting out the calculator because we spent hrs and sometimes days to figure where that "different element", flare, fit should be at default.considering size 0 to no limit sizeing.
Kaaren

quote:

Bob, normally a business will offer a product and sell it for a price. You have a product, and have sold it to my wife. This is your source of income. Now I'm not sure that there is a software product out there that will work flawlessly all the time, but it would only seem reasonable that if your product is malfunctioning in any way that you would gladly offer a complimentary repair. This would be the price of doing business; it is good customer service. It would seem that if you want to sell more product in the future you would begin by making your current customers happy. If the product is good people will buy it and tell others about it, right. Bundling new product in with updates/repairs isn't necessarily a bad idea, it seems like good business sense to me, but what if it causes the product you have already sold to fail? I know for a fact that my wife was very excited to have purchase Dress Shop, but now she is unhappy about that purchase, and wonders if she has made a big mistake. This is a big deal to her, because she is helping to provide for her family. She is trying to provide good service to her customers with your product. From what I've seen, your company has taken a very callus stance toward their customers needs. I have read some emails that you have published that are unreal; they are degrading and dis-respectful. I know nothing about sewing; I think your product is amazing; I think that you deserve to make a profit for your hard work. But, I believe that it is shortsighted to promote future business at the expense of customer satisfaction, and at the expense of your company's name. I believe that you are shooting yourself in the foot. The word that comes to mind is greed. Greed seems to work ok for a while some of the time, but I'm sure that you would agree, if you were to take an objective view, that it is not pretty.

I was surprised that you would ask for input regarding your marketing plan. Did you really want input Bob, or was this just another way to make this poor woman feel like she should shut up and stick to sewing ...your the programmer right Bob? The big masculine business owner. Why who are these women to ask you for help? Bob, I'm sure you are tired of people asking the same stupid questions all the time huh? Perhaps you could try updating a board that would offer solutions to new issues. Or perhaps you might realize that there are not stupid repetitive questions, but popular questions. Questions to problems that you have failed to resolve, or lack the creativity to provide easy access to the information that would answer the constant questions, hence freeing you up to fix your software.


This is becoming the kind of company that somebody needs to make a public example of...your way of doing business is reprehensible. I really think you should consider closing your email account at least until you have taken some stress management courses. And there must be some good people there that can be helpful to these WONDERFUL women who are maintaining a dying art, providing a service to their community or just trying to put clothing on their children. Good day.

Also, from one man to another, do not speak down to my wife again. If you wish to respond, please make your response to me, not my wife, and keep it short, yes or no preferably.

Hello Charles,

I am surprised that you took my rather innocuous remark that revenue is required for a company to survive as some kind of attack on your wife. If you find offense in such a simple observation, then I guess I can understand why you get so angry.

My suggestion that if revenue does not come from new product sales that it must come from the sale of service or updates is simply based on observing the business models of other software companies. Many software companies charge for the services that Livingsoft provides for free. The last time I had a question for Intuit regarding my Quicken program, it cost me $24.95. That is what they charge for a single service call.

Livingsoft has always provided unlimited customer service as part of the original purchase price. That is not a great business model, but it is what we started with and what we have now. There are not enough new users coming along by word of mouth to sustain this business. And, if you believe that my simply telling you that you are always right will generate so much great word of mouth that customers will suddenly appear that were not there last year then I believe you are mistaken. The company's founder tried that approach for 12 years and managed to generate such an enormous backlog of debt that the company will never fully recover from it.

It is unlikely that Dress Shop and Livingsoft will continue with its present business model beyond the end of this year. There just are not the financial reserves in our little partnership to provide deficit funding indefinitely. We're all pretty tapped out. The company is currently about 6 months behind on my paycheck and the other partners have contributed comparably. That was after loaning the business tens of thousands each to pay off old debts when we joined. So, if greed were our motivation, I think we all could do better working at Walmart.

I don't work on Dress Shop to satisfy my greed. It would be nice if my passion was profitable, but it is not. It is, however, my passion and I will continue to pursue it as best I can with the limited resources I can muster. But, it certainly does not pay much and the suggestion that our attempts to keep the doors open constitute greedy ripoffs is ... well, misinformed, perhaps.

Next year, I do expect and believe that Dress Shop will continue, but something must change. Whether the company must charge for service, charge for updates, raise prices, produce different products, or layoff personnel is not clear. Maybe some of all of those.

Whatever we decide to do to keep providing products and services, I do hope you do not consider it an attack on your wife. ;-)

Cheryl (and others),

I hear what you are saying. What you are asking would be a nice addition.

Right now, if a tool won't work at all for a particular design it is unavailable. Should one slip by, we only have to notify Bob and he will take care of it.

As for more detailed labeling, I don't think it is necessary. If something doesn't work, I can remember that (usually) and try something else. I find that I can create unique designs by using some of the tools in unexpected ways, or by starting with a different silhouette.

I would rather the staff work on fixing things that don't work and adding new tools and designs than spend their time on "convenience" items. JMHO