Trying to squeeze some DS-time into pre-Thanksgiving preparations!

I'm looking at the crotch tool and am not quite understanding how it is behaving. For instance -- using RTW12 (so it won't be dependent on over- or under-tweaked personal measurements) and a pair of Fitted Pants drafted at all default values (no options etc).


At default, everything makes sense to me -- I see relationships between measurements and things add up (within a few hundredths here and there.)
For RTW12 the body depth is 7.5 and this shows in the crotch tool.
The crotch extensions & breaks are as follows: FCE 3.37, BCE 4.192, FCB 8.917, and BCB 9.875. So the FCE 3.37 + BCE 4.192 = 7.562 and body depth is 7.5 Close enough to make sense.

if we make a change in the crotch tool to either crotch extension (front and/or back) do we then need to go back into the chart to make the body depth match? or does the crotch tool completely override what is in the chart?

I tried changing only the front extension and it seemed to also change the draft of the back of the pants. It seems that no matter what change I make to the front extension (either to make it bigger or smaller--and returning to defaults inbetween) the Back CE also changes and the two do not seem to be trying to total the 7.5" body depth.

For example, try changing the FCE to 3 (from 3.37). The back CE changes from 4.192 to 5.0. Or are we supposed to ignore the numbers on the pants?

Also confusing is that there is a definite difference in the red/blue lines in the back, even though I'm working only with the front.

Is this behaving as intended or misbehaving? Even though the disclaimer is that it is "This tool is not an editor. It is a crotch creation tool" ... shouldn't the same numbers (ie still having 4.192 as back extension and 9.875 as back break) yield the same pattern for the pants back as did the default draft?

I'm just trying to figure out what to look at when I make a change to determine how that change affected the pattern.

Thanks.

At the top of the Crotch Curve Tool is a link "Tell Me More." That article explains how the tool works, and should answer at least some of your questions. Try it while you are working with the tool, then come back with your questions.

The single most important thing to remember using the crotch tool is you are NOT modifying what the program defaulted to when you use this tool.

IT actually builds a new crotch!

If you unlock the numbers the tool will develop NEW NUMBERS from within the parameters set.
If you unlock the numbers the tool will develop NEW NUMBERS from within the parameters set.
IE If you pull the node out to create a greater front extension that also happens to be slightly LOWER it will/may change the crotch length, extension and inseam, and body depth.

IF you save those settings it actually saves these over rides attached to your chart.

It adjusts what's in the chart at every pertinent body position and over rides what you have on the chart.

Floor to waist minus inseam = rise or crotch depth

crotch length determines the entire length of the "crotch fork" from which develops both the long straight (front) angled ( back) forks, the curve break position of the fork ( where it starts to bend) and finally the extension which passes between the legs.

The center back dart is employed as a percentage of the hip minus waist and determines the angle of the back crotch fork.The CB dart you enter in the program does NOT save with the chart and must be entered by you each time you draft pants.

Depending on the pant the couture inseam ease which makes the back inseam 1/2 inch shorter than front is also employed.

OVERRIDE one bit counterbalances all again brand new and not based on what's in the chart but what it would take to make the adjustments you pulled the nodes around to.

So every question you pose or comment you made in your post is all related to this NEW crotch you built using these OVERRIDE features.

Kaaren

quote:

The single most important thing to remember using the crotch tool is you are NOT modifying what the program defaulted to when you use this tool.

IT actually builds a new crotch!

Thanks, Kaaren. This all seems to make sense when I read it and then nothing makes sense when I try to do it. I want to edit when instead I have to create. I see that I need part of the default crotch to be different while other parts of it are ok. I'm not sure HOW to build the new crotch. I'm not seeing the relationship I expect between cause and effect.

What steps should I take if I want to move the crotch point to the front by 1/2"? Essentially making front crotch extension 1/2" shorter but moving it to the back and making the back 1/2" longer? The crotch length measurements would remain the same since they were taken from the same rosebud being used to determine the change needed for the extensions.

I tried in RTW20 changing the default extensions from 3.726/4.649 to 3.25/5.125. And I re-entered the same crotch break measurements that the default gave me. When I do this, it appears that the new back crotch extension is actually smaller than the default I started with. I'm not seeing the anticipated relationship here in cause and effect.

But it also looks as if the default back crotch extension & the back measurement line might not be starting from the same crotch point (and the revised or new crotch lines do start from the same point). I'm wondering if the default is actually larger than reported (as much as 1") so when I put in a larger number (only 1/2") it appears that I'm getting a shorter crotch extension.

So maybe I'm confused not because of what the tool is giving me but because of what the default gave me. Shouldn't the extension measurements begin at the actual crotch point?

BTW removing the 1/2" back inseam ease doesn't make any difference in what I'm seeing for that horizontal line measuring the back crotch extension. It still doesn't begin at the crotch point as does the front.

I'll submit a problem report just in case.

TIA -- btw have to change signature -- I'm actually using 6.14 with patch a

quote:

Originally posted by Gayle:
What steps should I take if I want to move the crotch point to the front by 1/2"? Essentially making front crotch extension 1/2" shorter but moving it to the back and making the back 1/2" longer?.

Reduce front extension by 1/2 and increase back extension by 1/2 and click Redraft.

quote:

I tried in RTW20 changing the default extensions from 3.726/4.649 to 3.25/5.125. And I re-entered the same crotch break measurements that the default gave me. When I do this, it appears that the new back crotch extension is actually smaller than the default I started with. I'm not seeing the anticipated relationship here in cause and effect.

When experimenting with a tool it often helps to use an exaggerated number so you can actually see the cause and effect. Try changing the default extensions from 3.726/4.649 to 1.726/6.429 and click Redraft. See the front/back shift, but the body depth remains the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Diane Day:
When experimenting with a tool it often helps to use an exaggerated number so you can actually see the cause and effect. Try changing the default extensions from 3.726/4.649 to 1.726/6.429 and click Redraft. See the front/back shift, but the body depth remains the same.

I agree -- this makes sense. AND using the exaggerated numbers DO work as logic tells me they should. It's when I use realistic numbers that it's not performing as expected.

I do not believe that the default crotch is being drafted from the same starting point that all of the custom crotches are being drafted.

When I add 1/2" to the back crotch extension (yes, balancing changes by subtracting same amount from front crotch extension) I get a smaller back crotch extension -- it should be larger.

This happens until I add an inch or more to the back crotch extension -- THEN that extension starts getting larger.

But it seems I am the only one that is seeing this.