quote:

In any case, we got many responses today and we clearly need to give others a bit of time, so I'll repeat the tally tomorrow night and see where we are.

The results look promising, though with mixed suggestions regarding the waist dart centers. We may need to make that separately adjustable from the side seam indent. Yuck. I hate to make things more complicated. Hopefully, we can find a way to predict from the measurements who will want their dart centers at which position.

More data may make it clearer, so we'll collect a bit more. Thank you to all that have contributed.

DressShopBob
(Bob Clardy)

For the two-ended front dart on fitted sheath or shirt I would like the "center" of the waist dart, that is, the fullest part of the dart where the T-pins are, to lie on the measured waist line. With an hour-glass figure, that would also equate to the side seam indent. I'm not sure which "center" Bob was referring to, whether the point I've referenced, or whether he was referring to the waist dart's position being under the bust apex or closer to side seam. Where would others like the double-ended dart's T-pin, or widest part, to be?

For the two-ended front dart on fitted sheath or shirt I would like the "center" of the waist dart, that is, the fullest part of the dart where the T-pins are, to lie on the measured waist line. With an hour-glass figure, that would also equate to the side seam indent. I'm not sure which "center" Bob was referring to, whether the point I've referenced, or whether he was referring to the waist dart's position being under the bust apex or closer to side seam. Where would others like the double-ended dart's T-pin, or widest part, to be?


Diane BEFORE we decide what to do we need to evaluate actual test results, not what appears to be presumed.

When the waist side seam level needs to be changed the reports from people who have actually tested this that comment on the waist darting has repeatedly been to lower the double eyed waist dart that it is now sitting too high EVEN when the side shaping is NOW Correct.

So I need to know is this a test result or a concept .

Kaaren

Kaaren, it is both...a concept of good pattern drafting, a test of build 6.12 before the patch where the center of the front darts needed to move downward, and as others are reporting with the patch they still need to be moved downward. - Diane

After testing the 'patch' with the sheath pattern, I can only tell what 6.12 is doing with the darts from the sloper I made. I think the darts in the 'patch' sloper are awesome.
I was very careful when I marked and sewed up those darts, so that I was doing it perfectly. When I tried on that sloper, it fit, and it fit well because of the careful designing of those darts. Slopers are supposed to fit like a glove, and my sloper does.
When ease is put into the future fitted patterns, then I am imagining that the darts will be proportionately shaped and that they will be moved away from the bust dart and resized down a bit, etc.
For me, I like the slenderizing effect that the higher waist darts give. I am talking about the ones that go through the midriff area and slim down the figure a bit, giving the figure a nice feminine contour.
By the time the dart gets to the waist line, the dart must quickly, quickly, become smaller as in a very short distance, maybe about 3", it reaches the ab in the front where it ends. The dart in back is a bit longer. I find that the quick decrease in the waist darts, at and below the waist is not the part of my body that I like to accent by extreme darting. I would like to see the largest width part of the waist darts to be a little below the high waist area and then start tapering down to the ab/hip area.
Diane, is this the kind of answer that you were wanting to hear? I know this is a preference thing, and I am sure others have different ideas.

Well that's not what *I* wanted to hear LOL. because *I* want the dart maximum width at the waist reference line (where it is on the sloper) not the high waist line, but yes we do all have our own preferences and your opinion also counts. I'm lobbying for the orginal positioning.
((You all know this is said with jest, right?))

I'm lobbying for the orginal positioning.
((You all know this is said with jest, right?))


Perhaps we will need an option to place that where we want it too.

Thanks for letting me have a vote, at least. Ha! This is an easy change, or better yet, a choice, if possible.
I was just so happy to have the chance to test a 'patch' that will allow the side seam at the 'waist' to be at the waist. Then I can clip that spot at the waist and have a much better fitting garment.

Diane and any one else who has not tested this...in order to allevaite both confusion and presumptions.
based on a misconception.

The patch in most cases is moving the dart widest point in the same direction along with the waist side seam shaping.

MOST users are requesting to move the waist indent at side UP and leave the shaping where it is.

Only one user so far has needed to move the waist side down.she did not comment on waist dart position that I remember.

The patch allows you to move waist side UP with positive numbers or Down with negative numbers.

We plan on separating the two functions.

Move waist side shaping and allow the waist darting greatest in take point to follow the user change up or down or for one to move independantly of the other so the other does not need to.

Standard drafting does NOT draft patterns for tilted waists, curved spines, rounded backs, tilted pelvis. We do.

So the situation HERE is unique to those with tilted waists etc.within Dress Shop which does accommodate these user situations.

We do use the standard draft rules where we can and yet we have a need to adjust the side seam shaping and not the more centered waist darting USING those rules.

Measurement issues compounded by the extra fitting allowances such as allowingf for a tilt waist, adjustable shoulder slope and so on are not standard industry drafting proceedures and we often have to invent a new way to go with our expanded user definitions.
Kaaren

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kaaren Hoback,

Perhaps we will need an option to place that where we want it too.
thats the plan!
stay tuned...
K