Hi everyone,

I had the armhole princess blouse on screen and wanted to change the ease amounts. My measurement lines and numbers were on the screen, no sloper or other pattern showing.

If I selected no ease then the amounts of ease shown were the same in the fit tool boxes and on the screen. If I changed to standard fit or casual fit the the amounts in the boxes and on the screen were different.

Which are the correct amounts for ease please?

Thanks, Teresa (6.13)

Fit tool numbers are the numbers called for prior to smoothing/collateral ease.

The left over space at the end of any reference line when lines are showing are additional ease.

The numbers reporting are only there as a guide to what was called for NOT end results.

Kaaren

quote:

I had the armhole princess blouse on screen and wanted to change the ease amounts. My measurement lines and numbers were on the screen, no sloper or other pattern showing.

If I selected no ease then the amounts of ease shown were the same in the fit tool boxes and on the screen. If I changed to standard fit or casual fit the the amounts in the boxes and on the screen were different.

Which are the correct amounts for ease please?

I do not have the measurements that you used, so what I report here was done with Kaaren's measurements. When comparing the numbers in the Fit Tool with the numbers printed on the pattern, there are two reasons that they may not match. First, rounding errors. Second, half body versus full body ease amounts. I'll describe both below.

First, I went to File - Settings and had measurements displayed in decimal so they would match what is printed on the patterns.

I followed the steps you outlined and in the Fit Tool, Front Bust Ease was .542" while on the pattern, it was .583". This is a difference of 1/24 of an inch. That is rounding error. Which is correct? No idea. Can you cut your fabric accurately to that level of accuracy? Will the fit of your blouse be noticably different if it is a 24th of an inch different?

There is a point where increasing precision is not meaningful. It would be easy enough to make these numbers match, but we still would not know which is correct. Pick one. As long as you are consistent about which you look at (both when you make your sloper and when you make later garments), the fit will be equally consistent.

Now, the bigger difference in numbers. On the pattern, bust, waist, ab, and hip ease are all reported for the pattern piece shown. If you are looking at the front, you get only front ease for those areas / reference lines.

In the Fit Tool, bust and waist are also reported front versus back. However, Ab and Hip are not. The tool does not show separate ease for front Ab versus back ab, nor for front hip versus back hip. It shows total circumference ease for both of those. Separate amounts for this area have not been found necessary or desirable.

So, when you look at ab and hip amounts, the Fit Tool will be roughly double what is showing on the pattern piece you are viewing. Confusing? A bit. But, we were not expecting you to use both at the same time. They are redundant. The Fit Tool has settings you can use, as well as the reported values. If you use the tool, you should ignore the reference amounts on the pattern pieces.

At least, that's what I would do.

Hi Bob, thanks for sending such a full reply.

I understand that collateral ease will have an effect on the finished pattern and I know to look for that and I understand that some areas combine both front and back amounts.

What I am puzzled about is the following:-

I restarted the program and chose a casual armhole princess. For the sake of clarity I'll just choose the back bust ease figure.

Casual fit. Fit tool 8.26cms, amt shown on pattern 4.657cms

No design ease. Fit tool 2.33cms, amt shown on pattern 2.328 cms

Standard fit. Fit tool 5.93 cms, amt shown on pattern 3.598cms

I didn't make any adjustments at all,these are just the amounts of ease which the program gives.

It's difficult with a princess pattern to count the grid to see what the pattern is going to give in the way of ease which is why I would like to know which set of numbers is going to be correct.

I hope I'm not labouring the point too much but I would like to know which set of figures I can rely on.

Many thanks, Teresa

quote:

What I am puzzled about is the following:-

I restarted the program and chose a casual armhole princess. For the sake of clarity I'll just choose the back bust ease figure.

Casual fit. Fit tool 8.26cms, amt shown on pattern 4.657cms

No design ease. Fit tool 2.33cms, amt shown on pattern 2.328 cms

Standard fit. Fit tool 5.93 cms, amt shown on pattern 3.598cms

I didn't make any adjustments at all,these are just the amounts of ease which the program gives.

It's difficult with a princess pattern to count the grid to see what the pattern is going to give in the way of ease which is why I would like to know which set of numbers is going to be correct.

I hope I'm not labouring the point too much but I would like to know which set of figures I can rely on.

No, this is a good catch. The Fit Tool is displaying too large a number for back bust ease (back waist, too, but much smaller amount) IF reference lines are being displayed. The Fit Tool was showing the proper amounts if the reference lines were not being displayed.

Once again, it was assumed you would use one or the other. With both, the Fit Tool was incorrect.

I'll have this one corrected in the next update...

quote:

Now, the bigger difference in numbers. On the pattern, bust, waist, ab, and hip ease are all reported for the pattern piece shown. If you are looking at the front, you get only front ease for those areas / reference lines.

In the Fit Tool, bust and waist are also reported front versus back. However, Ab and Hip are not. The tool does not show separate ease for front Ab versus back ab, nor for front hip versus back hip. It shows total circumference ease for both of those. Separate amounts for this area have not been found necessary or desirable.

So, when you look at ab and hip amounts, the Fit Tool will be roughly double what is showing on the pattern piece you are viewing. Confusing? A bit. But, we were not expecting you to use both at the same time. They are redundant. The Fit Tool has settings you can use, as well as the reported values. If you use the tool, you should ignore the reference amounts on the pattern pieces.

At least, that's what I would do.


DressShopBob
(Bob Clardy)

Above, you have clarified that the ab and hip do not have separate numbers, only the waist and bust in the Fit Tool, and the that ab and hip only list total circumference.

My question is why the ab and hip would not have separate numbers, too? This is where I have the most problem with my fit.

I think my problem is with the default ease (don't know which kind, but I think design ease). There used to be a formula which I think was something like 40% ease in front plus 60% in back that made up the total design ease. I don't think this works for me. Maybe DS doesn't even use this fommula any more.
The reason may have something to do with the fact that DS uses, for the ab and hip, total circumference ease, and that is not how I thought or visualized what was happening.
All I know is that something is not working for me through the ab and hip area.
I do not rely on Fit Tool numbers, but have to print out a 100% pattern to see what exactly is happening. 25% doesn't do it.
Having a sway back does not help either, because what happens then is the distance between the waist and the hip are at an angle, (like this / /) not straight up and down, and somehow, the ease does not compensate at the right places. Complicate that with hoping that the back waist dart is turned on in tools so that the waist will be the correct width to compsensate for the sway back, becomes quite complex.
I don't know the solutions, but wish I did.

quote:

My question is why the ab and hip would not have separate numbers, too?

For the same reason that we do not have separate entries for left side versus rigth side of everything. Too many numbers. Too many entry boxes. Too many additional opportunities for incompatbility and error.

Dress Shop includes the settings that many people need. There will always be other settings that a few people need. If Dress Shop included every setting that anyone ever needed, it would be too cumbersome and confusing to use.

[/QUOTE]


No, this is a good catch. The Fit Tool is displaying too large a number for back bust ease (back waist, too, but much smaller amount) IF reference lines are being displayed. The Fit Tool was showing the proper amounts if the reference lines were not being displayed.

Once again, it was assumed you would use one or the other. With both, the Fit Tool was incorrect.

I'll have this one corrected in the next update...[/QUOTE]

Is there any possibility that the correction for this might be offered as a patch. I'm just re-reading posts and this explains some of my results on 2 jackets I'm working on.

And a question. If we have worked on our design with the reference lines off, but then turn them on to print... with the fit numbers still be accurate??

Thanks in Advance
Kathy in AZ DS 6.13 with most everything

quote:

No, this is a good catch. The Fit Tool is displaying too large a number for back bust ease (back waist, too, but much smaller amount) IF reference lines are being displayed. The Fit Tool was showing the proper amounts if the reference lines were not being displayed.

Once again, it was assumed you would use one or the other. With both, the Fit Tool was incorrect.

I'll have this one corrected in the next update...

Is there any possibility that the correction for this might be offered as a patch. I'm just re-reading posts and this explains some of my results on 2 jackets I'm working on.

And a question. If we have worked on our design with the reference lines off, but then turn them on to print... with the fit numbers still be accurate?? [/QUOTE]


Hi Kathy,

I would rather NOT do another patch, particularly for an issue like this one. First, patches cause confusion. People with build 6.13 have different features and different bugs and get confused talking to each other. And, there is an update planned for later this month, so the wait is not long.

Finally, we try to only do patches with bugs that actually effect the fit or prevent you from getting a correct pattern. This one does not. It effects the numbers displayed in the Fit Tool for Back Bust Ease and Back Waist Ease. If you turn off the reference lines, the numbers are correct. If you then turn the lines back on, the draft stays the same. The fit stays the same. The pattern stays the same. Just the Fit Tool numbers change. Do not use those numbers at that time and you will get the pattern you expect.

So, if you have done your adjustments and are ready to print a pattern, you certainly may turn on the reference lines at that time to print. The lines are good. The pattern is good. The numbers printed on the pattern are good. Print away...

Thanks for the response, Bob... I'll print it out and keep it with my notes. Knowing there is a glitch, I can be aware and move on with sewing.

Kathy in AZ