I just left a workshop where most of us wanted to make a princess armhole
or princess shoulder jacket. We were all of differing sizes. We all had
grossly large test garments when made from the defaults and our
measurement charts. Many long faces that turned into myriad questions of
" Why? Why? Why?" With the expert fitting talent of our instructor, two
ladies were able to get a good fit.

What a shame that the program did not give us a decent test garment in the
first place. Fitting yourself at home, alone, is next to impossible. I
left with perfect fitted pants, a straight skirt, and a fitted shirt to
use as a jacket. A mother-of-the-groom emsemble was put into beautiful
progress by another student, perfect pants, shirts, shells were taken home
by the rest of us.

Alas, I am still of the opinion that the basic core wardrobe pieces should
work and be separated out from the quirks of the new designs. Talk of
late has leaned that way. Talk of late has also led to charging us for
updates and classes. Let me put this out - even though the marketing of
the software assured me of a beautiful fit ( and has not lived up to the
promises), I would be willing to pay for an update only if it was to
perfect the basic garments that would not be fiddled with and broken by
the new collections that are meant to generate new monies. With those
unbreakable core garments, I would be happy to recommend the software to
all my students. Kelly

The response we can anticipate will be "Which patterns were used for fitting garments?" and because you say two ladies got a good fit and you left with perfect fitted pants, a straight skirt, and a fitted shirt to use as a jacket, we know it can be done. There are instructions for fitting in the DS Manual.

Agreed, it is difficult to measure oneself and critique fit alone. I'm pleased you and others left your workshop with a good fit. The DS educators are great!

As for the unbreakable core garments, see Core/Basic Patterns Wish List thread started by me on 9/28/05.

quote:

Originally posted by Diane Day:
As for the unbreakable core garments, see Core/Basic Patterns Wish List thread started by me on 9/28/05.

Diane, is this the list you mean? If so, Kaaren doesn't say they are unbreakable -- she just says they are the standard fit.

quote:

by Kaaren:
you want a basic list..
I can do that! fit level standard on all.

blouses: shell , fitted shirt, unfitted shirt

pants :fitted, trousers, sweat pants,jeans

Dress's: sheath, shift, princess arm hole, princess classic, two piece, fitted bodice, empire

jackets:
boxy, fitted, ah and shoulder princess
ditto for vests
ditto for tunics
stop right here,. you have the basics.

This is directed to anyone ... not to Diane ...

so those patterns listed above (which do list the princess armhole and "classic" -- is that the shoulder princess?) are still at the mercy of any update and quirk of whatever current "fix" is available. I don't think we have a list of unbreakable patterns -- even the bodice slopers a couple updates back had a problem with a missing shoulder dart

it's a Catch-22 -- update if you dare -- you can get one/some pattern/s working but may break something else you've been using with success ... or more frustratingly, break something that you haven't yet made so don't have a printed pattern but COULD have made if you would have printed it off BEFORE the last update.

No, I didn't include a specific pattern here and am talking in generalities because this has been the track record over the past several months. Ask any active DS User --- what happens when you load an update? Did you cross your fingers? Maybe I've missed the magic chant (although I've tried please, please, please)

So if you want a specific example ... sounds like it is the basic princess patterns. And the problem wasn't the ab/hip waist placement issue. She said they all drafted tooo big with the same measurement charts that were drafting pants, shirts, and shells as expected.

If her fitted pants, straight skirt, and fitted shirt were fine ... why wasn't the armhole princess? Why did it take expert fitting to allow only two women from an entire workshop to get a good fit on the princess? To me that sounded as if they extensively tweaked the patten that printed.

Ok, I should drink my morning coffee and THEN read my email ... but it was something to do while the coffee is brewing

Gayle, you are correct in saying that there should have been more success. Two out of five people got the Princess jackets we all wanted. The fitting and computer tweaking for each one took most of two hours by our expert educator, Terry. No one does it better, and she and her student were completely focused on the task at hand.

The fact that I had three garments was due to my already having them. There wasn't enough time for me to get my Princess Jacket fitted. I live close by and will have my opportunity soon. I agreed to try the Princess Blouse to be used as a jacket because it doesn't have as much ease.

Even with, NO Ease checked on the jacket, the resulting test garment had 5" extra ease in the back bust and 4 1/2" ease in the front. It might be okay if you were wearing the jacket over a sweatshirt and turtle neck, but most of us don't do that. With NoEase checked, you can imagine what the Standard Ease looked like!

The problems seemed to have begun around the time the Illusions and Casual/Comforts Collections. The problems persist til today. I just find it silly and aggravating to have to make a princess blouse in order to get close to what a princess jacket should be. Oh, and one more problem with that - I can't find how to put a full front button closure on a princess blouse, so one needs to be created with a pencil! If you can find the closure, please let me know.

Just another aggravation - whenever I click on "Reply" I get closed down with an error report. I have figured out that I can click on "Reply" press the space bar, then begin typing. The "Reply" button at the bottom doesn't allow me to do even that. It gets so bad at times that I will use the url address bar or just contact someone privately. Computers make good boat anchors, yes? Kelly

PS - Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. This program is still the best one available in the computer-generated kind. As for the Big 3, if you are going to take a pencil to make changes, I would rather the pattern be very close to my measurements before I get started. The Big 3 need way too much changing for my body's quirks.

Thank you for the head's up information on the princess problems. I am so happy to finally receive informtion from a workshop that says that not all was perfect. An apple is an apple, and an orange is an orange. Right? This is the kind of information we all need so that we do not waste so much time and money on fabrics, etc. What is so bad about saying that DS has a problem here and there? What we need to hear is what the problems are, and how to solve it before everyone who owns the program does not repeat the same problem.

I would like to digress a little. Most of us who own DS have been sewing for years and years. We were the ones who stuck with sewing when we were teenagers and found success with making garments when most of our peers were turned off because they could not get their garments to fit like they wanted them to, so they gave up sewing. We are the survivors of sewing so to speak.

We are a hearty bunch, and we bring much knowledge and many fitting techniques to the fore, for this program. I truly believe that what we have brought TO this program, MAKES this program. I love every minute of reading this discussion list as it only adds to my years and years of knowledge, now involving the computer and garment making. It was only yesterday that I got a personal message from someone I met on this list who helped me with a personal fitting problem I have, and we discussed alternate ways that I might use DS to get better results. There are always more than one way to solve a problem.

I believe I now know, from the information from this workshop, that the problems I was having last March, with my first princess blouse, was something that was not of my own doing. I ripped out the stitches in that blouse several times, never ever really figuring out what was wrong with it. It hangs in my closet now, not having been worn more than a few times.

With Illusions we added 3 swub levels of fit and linings.

Using commercial RTW ease allowances and converting them to eprcentages we came up with
wear over nothing
wear over silky
and wear over oxford shirts ( which is enough for sure to get a vest or sweater under. which attached to each of the std fit, casual fit or comfort fit levels.

Try a wear over nothing, in std fit and adjust from there.

Many wear a blouse and a lght sweater or vest under a jacket.

A size 10 Vera Wang jacket has 6 inches of bicep ease and almost 8 inches of total bust ease.

An arm hole depth that is significantly lower than bust level and a 2+ inch shoulder extension.

ALL these body positions MAY be user defined and adjusted.

Kaaren