Hello! I am trying to make a linen shirt for one of my sons without buying the men's pattern collection (using and tweaking the men's standard sizes available in regular Dress Shop) and I need help on designing the sleeve. I only know how to use one sleeve, the set-in one that ends up with several small gathers on the top of the sleeve. That look won't do for a guy's shirt. I need the kind that is flat all around. How do I do that, is it possible for someone to explain it to me?

You have a real challenge. First of all, DS places the top of the sleeve based on the shoulder point from your measurements. Menswear uses a dropped shoulder, which results in the flatter sleeve cap.

Here's what I did on screen to help that:

First, print your pattern at 25% so you know where you are starting.

I added 1" to across shoulder front and back (You could add more). That also makes the neck opening wider, so I added to the shoulder length to compensate (probably 1/2", but you should print at 25% to see if the neckline is the same as the original.

Next I added 1-2" to the across chest and across back, so that the shape of the armscye is relatively vertical.

Note: Be sure to save these measurements with a unique name.

I tried decreasing the sleeve cap ease, but I didn't like the shape I got, at least with my measurements. You can shave off a little at the top, but the cap height will be too short. DS is not good at making this type of sleeve, in my opinion. You could try making a series of tiny pleats/darts in the pattern before cutting and still maintain the sleeve cap height.

The numbers I used were for my own measurements. I don't know what you would need with men's measurements. Just look at the pattern on the screen and play with the measurements until the pattern looks like what you expect.

You did not mention the style of shirt you want to make. Dress shirts usually have a yoke that starts forward from the regular shoulder seam and extends across to the back. You would have to do this manually (tape the front/back together at the shoulder, draw the new yoke, cut apart, add seam allowances). I guess it depends on how picky you are about the details.

If you are not picky about having the yoke start in the front, you can use the camp shirt - or don't use a yoke.

Thanks for this challenge. I have always had fun trying to trick the software into doing something that it thinks it can't do.

Carolyn, thank you so much for your detailed reply. It was very kind of you. You have convinced me that for my son's shirt, because he is *darned* picky, I'd better buy one. I do not know how to alter store-bought patterns, but I have his measurements and will get a size as close as I can, and then count on the linen to carry the show (from Fabrics-store.com, they're gorgeous).

But I will try to use your suggestions to alter the DS sleeve for my own use. All this time I thought I just didn't know how to ease right! I did once try extending the shoulder seam a little but that just resulted in the little gathers poofing further down the arm in a most ridiculous way. I have a downloaded pattern with the kind of sleeve we are discussing that I made up for myself and love, to use as a reference, otherwise I'd not know what I was looking for to compare the results of the experimentation!

Many thanks again! Trying to figure this out has cost me sleep and increased the midnight drinking!

Janet

Oh, Carolyn, one more question, do you happen to know if the men's DS collection actually has this sleeve, and do you think those patterns could be more easily tweaked to fit me than trying to tweak the sleeve in Ladies' DS? It might be worth the investment then!

Janet - you may be able to use a commercial pattern for a men’s shirt. Men don’t have all the curves we women have, so fitting is not so much of a problem.

About sleevecap ease. You decide where to put the ease. Normally most of it is at the top. There are ways of setting in a sleeve so that you don’t have gathers, but that could be a long discussion. You could try searching the internet for how to set in a sleeve.

Good luck with your project!

quote:

Originally posted by JanBaker:
Oh, Carolyn, one more question, do you happen to know if the men's DS collection actually has this sleeve, and do you think those patterns could be more easily tweaked to fit me than trying to tweak the sleeve in Ladies' DS? It might be worth the investment then!

Jan,
The Men's Fashion Collection has the following shirt patterns:

• Dress Shirt, Euro-Fit
  
• Dress Shirt, Tapered
  
• Dress Shirt
  
• Flannel Shirt
  
• Henley Shirt
  
• Muscle Shirt
  
• Polo Shirt
  
• Rugby Shirt
  
• Scrub Top
  
• Sweatshirt
  
• T-Shirt
  
• Turtleneck Shirt

You can get that collection here: https://www.livingsoftnw.com/DS9/MensFashions.htm

I see those all in the preview, but is that dropped sleeve, that flat sleeve, available on any?

Before doing too much expanding & extending, print out a 1/4 scale basic using the means measurement setting with the red comparison lines on (can't think of the name - you can see it on the left hand side of menu's near print - My big computer died this am) . I think you will find that some of the adjustment is already done. (I have pro, but am sure that you still get mens measurement option in all). I am not one for gathers, so I always use fit/ease menu to take the shoulder to .25 or 0, checking how much bicep ease is left. I always found Kaarens ease allowance defaults to be too much. Have always been satisfied with the fit once made up. HTH.

Thank you so much for giving me that tip. I played with it--you can even enter a negative number and make it flatter still. The number on ease for bicep doesn't change, but are you saying in practice flattening the cap too much reduces the bicep ease?

In the men's patterns and measurements, the back armhole shape is very 'vertical' as the other responder said was desirable, but not the front one. Do you (or anyone) know if this is the shape in a men's shirt pattern? I looked at pattern books at Joann's yesterday but didn't open one. (There were very few, and mostly the close fitted kind, which I don't think will go well with linen, so I didn't buy any nor open any up there in the store to look.)

Jan,

There is a flattened sleeve in the oversized shirt. However that sleeve will not fit on other patterns.

I did some more "playing" using the unfitted shirt. I increased the f/b shoulder widths by 2" each, and made the other adjustments I mentioned earlier to set the neck opening and shape of the armscyes. Then I added 3" to the bicep ease and set the cap ease to .25. The result was a fairly flat sleeve. You might also want to increase the bottom width of the sleeve That number might not make sense, but just play with it until it looks good on the screen. For example, if you are making a short-sleeved shirt you might want the underarm seam to drop straight down.

The additional bicep ease seems to be the key, as the total length of the sleep cap cannot be less than the total lengths of the f/b armscyes.

Play with the numbers, as your numbers might be different from mine. As mentioned before, be sure to print the pattern at 25% before starting so you have something with which you can compare.

I think we are getting close!

Thank you, Carolyn! I have followed the directions you gave, both first time and then here, on a pattern for myself, not on the oversized shirt in men's (bc I can't print that). I am waiting to cut it out. I reduced the sleeve cap ease to 0 (which is really .0125) and then increased the bicep. The body of the blouse is the same as the original pattern, using the 25% printouts, or almost, the neck opening is a smidgeon wider and I left that alone since it has no collar to worry about if that adjusted along with the neckline width.

Anyway I'm fighting my way through Monday chores to cut it out and see if that sleeve works, and if so, I'll make my son's pattern in regular dress shop and flatten the sleeve as indicated.

Thank you so very much!

Janet

Hello to all who helped, I hope this reply goes to all. I was able to flatten the sleeve using your help!! I used an existing pattern of mine, not a men's, just to try it, and I see how it goes. I still have a little tweaking to do but I know what they are, and as soon as I make a pair of pants for the granddaughter's birthday coming up fast, will turn to the men's shirt with more confidence, using the men's measurements as a starting point and comparing the sleeve shape to the one I already made successfully.

Thank you all for your very kind help! I tell you, mastering these kinds of problems and then creating something wearable, that is, comfortable, and beautiful too, is better than therapy!